Goleta

[bkeyes]

jj,

For now I'll just start this highly debated topic off with a question to you. Because there is always contradictory information presented, I'm interested in one thing.

In G2, you note that a source claims that DNA was found at the scene and compared with LK and it wasn't a match. Obviously if this is true, Goleta is no longer a topic, as far as I'm concerned. My question to you is how impressed were you as to the source's information, the source's credibility and so forth. As I have always believed, G2 featured no rape, hence no DNA and I suspect this is still the case: no DNA. Even the CCF episode wavers on this point, and this adds to the confusion. (I don't believe that Goleta is connected with the LK crimes.)

One related question. Have you attempted contact with Ret. Det. Baker of SBSD? After all, he worked the Goleta cases and didn't like a link with LK (and possibly any of the EAR crimes). From what I understand, he can be hard to reach but you've done so well with contacting people (like SA Los) that I thought I'd ask.

[bkeyes]

One more. jj has mentioned all of this, repeatedly, on a different board. I'd be very interested in a good faith opinion from anyone who believes the Goleta murders are the work of the DNA-linked murderer. To drastically narrow things down I propose the following question: take, for instance, the 6/28/78 Modesto NE couples rape. Then think of 1 Goleta. I have an extremely difficult time believing that these two crimes were committed by the same person. However, I'm interested in opposing points of view. A new perspective is always welcome. (A few specifics about the Modesto assault are on this site, under the "EAR-A versus EAR-B, a crime-by-crime breakdown" link.)

[jjmcgr]

you are going to make me look this up, aren't you!

ok.

the source was a Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department officer.

the reference is an article in the Santa Barbara News Press on
October 3, 2000 . A copy of the complete article can be found on this website (!!!) in the documents section under Santa Barbara Articles.

The exact quote:

"There was DNA evidence in our investigation that does not match the DNA from their killer," said Lt. Mike Burridge, spokesman for the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department. "We obviously would like nothing more than to solve these homicides. There are still surviving victims, and surviving and grieving family members who would like to see these cases resolved."
But while there are similarities among the cases, there are just as many inconsistencies, Burridge said.
<<<<<

I wrote about this on the AETV board a while back. I conject that since the DNA could not have come from the usual source (semen), it was probably collected from saliva in the kitchen of the 2d Goleta crime scene where the killer fed the dog and probably himself. Doubters like Pool may claim the DNA was from a third party who was not the killer. [However, I'm really beginning to think Pool cannot possibly REALLY believe the Goletas are connected. I think he may have been marketing the linked killer in hopes that he'd get more publicity for an alleged 10 times killer in three counties than a 6-times killer in two counties. Similarly, I don't think most cops (Bevins and Shelby excluded) in Sacramento really believed that all 45 attacks attributed to the EAR were committed. SCSD spokesman Miller all but admitted so much in a statement once near the end of the spree. it's in the 115 article collection- check the index!]

It is funny how a SBSD officer can make such a statement and it is just ignored outright. A76 used to claim they had 'linkage blindness.' But they had good reasons for it!

[jjmcgr]

details on all the EAR crimes are found in newspaper clippings available in pdf format on this website as is an index to these clippings.

I'm interested in the answer to this question myself and, hopefully, a better one than the police know more than we do and think they are linked. The SBSD has a lot of info on the goletas and do not think they are linked.


I haven't contacted or tried to contact any SBSD perosn yet but wolud probably start with Burridge the guy who said the DNA did not match.

[ista]

Okay, here I go again. I think the Goleta crimes were personal with the exception of Goleta 1. Now, who was following who?

In regards to DNA, I will argue till the truth is known that Janelle Cruz was a relative of ONS and that is why the DNA connection was made. I know it has been said the DNA was through a semen match. I'd like to know who has a positive confirmation on that. If they do, prove it. All I have seen is there is a DNA link, not what kind of DNA link. As far as I'm concerned the door is wide open to speculation and I think that door does not need to be overlooked. That's my own personal opinion

[jjmcgr]

ista,
the DNA matched the unknown killer not cruz. unless she was the unknown killer or had an identicle twin sister who was (and both would have been 10 years old when the CCC crimes were committed), then the DNA will be different no matter who the close relative was. And if it were close to hers, they'd have known long ago to go after her relatives.

The three Goletas are connected to each other. So why wolud 1 be random while 2 others were not?

[ista]

Jjmcgr, your mean. LOL. We don't know how the DNA was determined with Janelle. If it was through semen, body tissues or blood from Janelle. That's what I want to know. There is a DNA link, a link. That is the question.

It's been said time and time again to look at the Cruz case. Even investigators said that attack was personal.

Now, Sac went up to Goleta to compare notes there because of M.O., think about it.

This was before the DNA link with Ventura and Irvine years later. Just some food for thought.

[jjmcgr]

I'm not sure it was personal. Her head was covered when he hit her so what difference did it make to the attacker which way she was facing? Or how did he even know? She might have rolled over as he was swinging.

But biologically, there can be no error of mixing her DNA with the killer's or thinking hers was the killer's. Only identical twins have the same DNA. And I think they can even differentiate those two as well with more tests.

I think we can logically infer the DNA came from semen, not Cruz' blood or her body tissues. Otherwise it would not have been an exact match for those of the other linked crimes. If they incompetently and accidentally used Cruz's blood and it matched the killer, it would mean she was the killer. And, of course she was not.

[bkeyes]

jj,

You know, I actually had read that Santa Barbara article about a year ago and forgot I'd read it! What happened was that I was looking for a specific SB investigator's name when I skimmed the articles before making the opening posts in this thread. No more speed-reading for me.

Saliva from G2 makes the most sense. The perp from G1 may have cut himself amidst the chaos, leaving blood which could be tested but that seems unlikely as such information would probably have been made public, plus once H&H starting to escape, the would-be perpetrator
in all probability laid down his knife (actually H's knife) thus reducing the chance of cutting himself.

I like your thoughts about Det. Pool and the distinct possibility that perhaps he thought Goleta was less than perfect as a match to the linked killings, but was adamant about Goleta being linked for the sake of additional publicity. I wouldn't blame him if this were the case.

I've heard the city referred to as "Go-let-a" and as "Go-lee-ta." I've always thought the former was accurate (Bill Kurtis uses both pronounciations on the Cold Case show, which seems unintentionally in keeping with the minor motif of contradictory information in said show). Go-let-a or Go-lee-ta?

[jjmcgr]

B,
actually the perp took the knife with him and ditched it with the bike on the sidewalk on San Patracio Drive when he fled over a fence into a backyard. This is according to Special Agent Stan Los. My interview with him may have been short but it was thorough! I was prepared and asked him almost every question that people have asked me since then.

When that woman ran amuck at the post office the news shows all pronounced it like I do in my head when I see the name:
Go-lee-ta. When the Surreal Life went to a tv station in Santa Barbara and did a mock news cast, during the weather segment they mentioned Goleta and pronounced it similarly.

[dengas]

I've always heard it pronounced Go lee' ta -- and I'm from CA

[bkeyes]

Excellent, thanks all. Go-lee-ta is far more euphonious and to accentuate richly the Latino lilt, slowly pronounce the word and at the final syllable, lightly place your tongue between your teeth. This provides a melodic Spanish accent. How the name of the city is pronounced may seem minor but it's still of importance, in my opinion. Thanks again.

[bkeyes]

"There was DNA evidence in our investigation that does not match the DNA from their killer," said Lt. Mike Burridge, spokesman for the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department.

No arguments here, and you know that I'd bet money that Goleta is unrelated to the LK crimes. But what is the overriding thing -- the ONLY thing -- which links the LK? DNA of course.

Yet, we have this same Burridge, in the same article, adding, ""I would say that it is not outside the realm that they could be connected," he said. "It's also not outside the realm that they are separate killers." Quite diplomatic but if they had DNA, it exonarates. Period.

"We can't just turn away from the Goleta murders." Heany [different detective] said. "We can't ignore them. We have no conclusive evidence they aren't related or they are." .

a DNA mismatch exonerates suspects in the Goleta case linkage. My big question is why this DNA mismatch was never mentioned again and again by SBSD, regardless of investigator.

I can only read articles that some of the SB detectives question whether or not that the DNA was from the actual killer. AThis may explain why you like to include the DNA mismatch but feel compelled to list several more traditional things as well. All of this tells me that SB wasn't exactly ecstatically convinced that their DNA is that of Goleta Killer, who I repeat, was NOT the linked killer in my view.

I'm not trying to bust chops, I'm just only relaying what the articles say and how I perceive them; nothing more

[jjmcgr]

firstly, in this case in articles or on tv shows, whenever Goleta is addressed, the talkers are always Pool, Heaney or Whitmeyer. The SBSD is almost never quoted or shown on camera.

This is not a coincidence. SBSC would dispute the storylines in these articles or on the tv shows.

secondly, I think SBSC was somewhat equivocal about the DNA because it was not found in semen so they could not be 100 percent certain it was the killer's DNA. Theoretically it could have been some third party who had been in the house before the murders.

Barton, in my framing of the Goleta theory on the board, I did not deliberately downplay this statement. I had either not read the article or not noticed that line until long after those arguments on the board. I would surely have posted the DNA mismatch as my number one point. The Goleta deal back then became such a recurring thing because one poster kept posting provocaitve posts proclaiming the unit of the goleta crimes with the rest and I felt obligated to dispute them. In my latest wave of posting, however, that poster has been absent and I post presuming Goleta is different, although I do not go out of my way to say so. in this recent wave I did post about the DNA mismatch about 2-3 months back.

[bkeyes]

I know the Goleta Goon is in no way the LK. In fact, I'm inclined to believe that they had the Goleta killers DNA (I still wouldn't rule out blood drops, even if we have no indication of such.)

You did the right thing. If the cops in Goleta equivocated even just a little as to their DNA it makes sense that others should do the same. I do wonder how much was known about DNA in 1979 in the first place.

[dengas]

Okay, here comes ignoramus again with her questions.

Does the state have the Goleta DNA, so that when Mark & Rodney's DNA was run way back when, it would have cleared them against the Goleta murders as well? When Paul said that neither were a hit, that means EAR-ONS, but does that also mean Visalia (Snelling

[jjmcgr]

All we know is that a Lieutenant Burrbridge of the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department commented that DNA they had from a Goleta crime scene did not match with the DNA in the 7 crimes that do match.

Why don't you write Paul Holes and ask him about this. I already did in reply to that e-mail you sent me with him as a CC but he never replied, probably because he doesn't know me.

[dengas]

I'm going to lay low for a bit with Paul so I won't appear as a 'NUT'

Instead of e-mail, he left a message on my phone where he said to call if he could be of further assistance... Well,...I now have more questions for him!

[Senior Crown]

It has been repeatedly said on the A&E board, in the CCF and AMW shows that Janelle Cruz sustained excessive injuries to the face and head over and above that which would be necessary to kill her.

In the vast majority of domestic violence cases that results in death LE and investigators find excessive injuries to the victims face and head.

Because there was viable evidence obtained at the crime scene that DNA could be extracted and preserved, it was matched to 3 other murders in Orange County. A double murder [the Harringtons in 1979 ] and Manuella Witthuhn[1981].

We don't want to say Ista is wrong in pursing a domestic link, however just because there was more injuries sustained in and around the face and head than was necessary to cause death does not mean the crime was domestic. A very smart killer who studies cops to outwit them] would know procedure and could stage the crime to appear domestic therefore have the police follow the domestic lead which [given whats known today] would be a dead end.

The Smiths are an example of the local police looking at a double murder first as a domestic related crime.

[jjmcgr]

You know when Bundy escaped from jail in colorado, his next crimes were very violent. I wonder if the 5 year gap had anything to do with the increased violence of the Cruz attack. Since she had covers over her, it wasn't a matter of the attacker wanting to look at her face while he smashed it.

He may simply have been rusty and the overkill may have be reflective of that as well.

All that being said, if you look at where Cruz lived, it was a pretty insular area. See jjmcgr.googlepages.com/IM3.jpg
In that respect, it reeks of an inside job.

[Senior Crown]

JJ, they have DNA.

If it was an inside job which according to procedure is the very first thing LE will look for, then upon revisit [e.g. 1998 DNA matching], if there was anything remotely indicating an "inside job", LE would then request DNA samples from known acquaintences for comparison.

Ms. Cruzs murder links to 2 double murders [Smiths and Harringtons] and Mrs. Witthuhns murder. The Smiths and Harringtons murder was more than 5 years in the past. According to TV shows, DNA matches to serial rapes in Northern California about 7 years before Cruz was murdered. If Ms. Cruz believed she knew who killed Domingo/Sanchez, given that people do say voice what they think about such things [blab] she would have said something to someone at sometime.

To comment on the Harrington double murder as an anomoly, one can say that they became victims instead of the neighbor next door of the neighbor across the street simply because it was custome for the Harringtons not to lock the doors.

[jjmcgr]

Just beause they have DNA does not mean it could not also be an inside job. Cruz may have made the mistake of becoming pals with a serial killer. That said, it was still most likely a relatively random victim selection, in my opinion.

The limited entrances to the crime scene seems very similar to the limited entrances to the Dana Point crime scene. This attacker seems to surgically strike his victims.

The Smiths also seem like a surgical strike with all those other homes right around them. They also had a male visitor before the attack. Maybe there were loud voices and the attacker decided to set up Alsip. the same thing may have happened in the Cruz case. If so, both sets of victims may have been partially selected because of the presence of a departing visitor.

[Senior Crown]

JJ

What is similar between Goleta and The Irvine Crimes is freeway access and crime time line. Least if what Archangel76 has on his site is accurate in regards to the H/H, Smiths, Offerman/Manning Domingo/Sanchez, Harringtons, Witthuhn, Cruz.

The Goleta crimes have 2 double murders within a mile of each others location but a long period of time between when the crimes were committed. Orange County also has the same pattern.

If you look at Goleta crimes, freeway on ramps and off ramps between where the crimes are and where there are vacant areas in which to hide in /ingress/egress to a parked car, there are similarites between Goleta and Orange County.

The "If this", "then that" works well in determining if the killer knew the victims rather than random victim selection.

"If" the killer knew Janelle Cruz, and Janelle Cruz was murdered because of an "inside job" [something she knew], "Then" it holds true that there would be a family link to the killer. If that, then it would hold true that a paternity DNA match between DNA left at the crime scene would match paternity DNA from family members.

[jjmcgr]

The timeline I have posted on this website is fairly comprehensive and undoubtedly accurate. See it at:

jjmcgr.googlepages.com/EARBKTL051706.pdf.

I don't think the Cruz or other crimes were by acquaintances, relatives or hits. I think they were random or seemingly random.

The highway deal, however, to me seems to be cancelled out by the surgical strike nature of the Smith, Harrington and Cruz attacks. Harrington and Cruz were i nthe midlde of housing developments with convoluted access. Smith was in the middle of a group of six homes all packed in close to each other. The attacker had to have done some sort of pre-planning that allowed him to select those sites in particular. The south Sac highway ramp attack may be the prototype for these attacks.

However, given the 5 year gap, I think the killer lived in the Irvine area (probalby a town next door).

the timeline for the linked attacks, apart from cruz, is about 5 months between. The 1st and 2d Goleta attacks were about three months apart. the last attacks in both Goleta and Irvine were a great time after the previous attacks (a year and a half and 5 years, respectively). In Goleta I think the killer was unavailable for a year and a half and then unavailabel forever after. In Irvine, I think the killer actually stopped in 1981 and the Cruz attack was a fall off the wagon event.

[Senior Crown]

none of them had kids living at home.

It possible the victims became victims simply because they did not have children at home.

[requiem]

Jun 6, 2006 20:50:33 GMT -5 jjmcgr said:

I wonder if the 5 year gap had anything to do with the increased violence of the Cruz attack. He may simply have been rusty and the overkill may have be reflective of that as well.

Great point. Spot on in my opinion. Also aside from being rusty, perhaps he was just making up for lost time and really enjoying this one, it had been so long for him, the pleasure of this gruesome murder was probably enhanced.

[kona]

In late 1976 and early 1977, female students at the University of California in Santa Barbara were terrorized by a grim series of "look-alike" murders, so-called because the victims closely resembled one another. The first to die was co-ed Jacqueline Rook, 21, abducted from a bus stop in the Santa Barbara suburb of Goleta on December 6, 1976. A Goleta waitress, Mary Sarris, disappeared the same day, and both were still missing on January 18, when 21-year-old Patricia Laney vanished from another local bus stop. Laney's corpse was discovered next day, in nearby Refugio Canyon, and police recognized the sinister pattern when Jacqueline Rook was found dead, in the same area, on January 20. Each had been killed by one shot to the head, fired from a small-caliber pistol. Thor Christiansen first came to the attention of police in February 1977, as one of several hundred persons questioned in the case. Cited as a minor in possession of alcohol, he was not considered a suspect at the time, although authorities confiscated a .22-caliber pistol from his car. No one remembered Christiansen on May 22, when the skeletal remains of Mary Sarris were discovered in Drum Canyon, north of Santa Barbara. Homicide investigators wrote him off as one more teenaged punk, picked up with liquor on his breath. Linda Preston, age 24, was thumbing rides in Hollywood on April 18, 1979, when Christiansen picked her up, traveling several blocks before he drew a gun and pumped a bullet into her left ear. Bleeding profusely, the young woman managed to leap from his car and save herself, escaping on foot to find medical aid. Three months later, on July 11, Preston spotted her assailant in a Hollywood tavern and summoned sheriff's deputies, who booked him on a charge of felonious assault. Police in Santa Barbara noted similarities between the crimes; they also learned that Thor had been arrested on a drunken driving charge July 7, another .22-caliber handgun removed from his car. On July 27, Christiansen was formally charged with three counts of first-degree murder in Santa Barbara, held over for trial without bond.
Thor Nis CHRISTIANSEN was murdered in prison.

So could this guy be an inspiration for the ear to, up his game?
could they have known each other?
kona

[portofleith]

Kona,

I don't know if they knew each other, but I don't think Ears Ons needed other serial killers or rapists to motivate him. The Hillside Stranglers, The Son of Sam, The Woolly Rapist, The Hooded Rapist etc. were all operating in this time period.

Thor lived in Goleta and worked at his father's restaurant in Solvang. Besides the 3 Isla Vista coeds, Thor also killed a 68 year old woman.

It sounds like you are immersed in your Goleta research, which is great. There was a serial rapist(and perhaps more than one) operating in Santa Barbara in Summer of 1977. Anthony Hughey was arrested for some of the crimes in August, but the article I have says there were rapes in Goleta and at UCSB that may not be linked to him during this time period. If you come across any articles about rapes in Goleta in summer of 1977 check to see if any MO mentioned could be linked to Ears. That was one of his absences from northern California.

Port

[kona]

Portofleith,
Goleta in summer of 1977. I'll check it out.
Library time is getting hard to find.
I do drive by the old neighborhood though,
Am willing to ask about poi's you got, if they came from my end of the tracks.
I have a master list of rumor names, just all the hardcore boys of age in the time frame, area,

that's what I am working on.
I have someone on the inside checking on the dog, tattoo,
Sacramento links.
Kona

[portofleith]

Kona,

Here is more info on your Thor Christiansen victims. The thing I find interesting is that this article was headline news and then two years later couples start getting bludgeoned to death in suburbia and that only warrants a paragraph or two. It shows the power of the press.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/islavista.jpg